I completely understand, trust me. Thanks for continuing to write interesting and thoughtful posts. I know we’ll converse as time allows us.

Stephen,

You are very gracious! And, please realize that I did not understand that you were thinking about the Reformed Episcopal Church. While I certainly don’t agree with everything they believe (i.e., infant baptism), they are indeed much more conservative than much of the rest of the Anglican/Episcopal movement, at least in the U.S.

Blessings, Boyd

You have some valid points. Perhaps it isn’t time to throw in the towel, but drastic changes would have to be made in a much shorter time than 10-15 years, in my opinion. To begin with consider this: most people, an increasing number at that, realize the 16 million or so the SBC boasts as its membership is a grossly inflated number. For various reasons the true active membership is probably half that, if you’re optimistic, and more than likely less than half that. Either way this puts the realistic figure at 6-8 million Southern Baptists. LifeWay research indicates well over half of these people attend smaller country churches which are mainly older white southerners. These churches are not growing, many are dying, and perhaps some 90% or so of all SBC churches don’t baptize a single person each year. A recent lifeway article also shows an ever aging group of people attending the annual meeting over the last 20 or so years. If this continues, in 10-15 years most of the SBC will be either dead or middle aged. The figure would probably drop to just 3-5 million. So, you’re right, if the SBC is content to stay mostly white, mostly older, and mostly in the southeast, it will die and or be extremely marginalized in US Protestant life.

Having said that I realize the SBC is in much better condition than most other denominations in America. But if you note the rampant liberalism in the Episcopal church, or most mainline denominations, remember many people said the same of the SBC a few decades ago. Even then, this was true of SBC leadership and institutions, not all the laity or clergy. I know there are still many good Episcopalians around, and good Presbyterians, Lutherans, Methodists, etc. Those denominations can be reformed too. Also, though the larger bodies of these mainline denominations are afflicted by liberalism, there are smaller bodies which remain orthodox and conservative. I’m sure you know of the Missouri Synod Lutherans, the Presbyterian Church in America (PCA), and Reformed Episcopal Church or the Anglican Communion Network, to name a few. Mainline Protestants still have options and they still have hope. Too often the SBC believes itself to be God’s last and only hope.

As far as postmodern society goes, there is little doubt we have become such in America, as so western Europe. Postmodernity is not looming in the future or rising, it is the current reality for most of America. This is why the Emergent churches are more prevalent now, for good and bad. Emergent Christians are perhaps the most effective in reaching our younger generations, and they emphasize more communal aspects of worship and church and more sensory participation in worship. Do you know what that means they are returning to? It means they are reclaiming liturgy and ritual, which tend to focus on the sacredness of God and the mysteriousness of God. There is much that is inexplicable and awe inspiring about worshipping a transcendent and yet imminent God, and the Emergents are honest about this. For centuries the church held to liturgies, because in the wisdom of our ancestral brethren they knew worship styles and services could only be changed and spiced up so much. Sooner or later we realize that routine and ceremony and ritual will develop no matter what the worship style and eventually any innovation will become tradition. This is why I love high church worship. I am not alone. More and more Christians, many of them young, are tiring of charismatic, contemporary, often times shallow and performance based worship. If you want a Christian to stay away from liturgy, don’t expose he or she to church history. But I digress, I say all that to say that more and more of our younger generations are looking for truth and looking for something real. They are looking for deeper, more spiritual, more meaningful experiences. I believe they will often, but not absolutely, be satisfied with older church traditions. While they are not flocking to the mainline churches which embody these traditions, they are discovering them in many Emergent churches today. They think they’re finding something new and fresh, as far as church goes, but they are really connecting to what most of Christianity has preserved and heralded for centuries.

I know these comments don’t cover the situation nearly as detailed or as completely as it deserves, but this is my cliff notes version, if you will. Also, I know I am being too hard on the SBC in some regards and expecting it to be something it will never become, but for what it is it could still stand a large amount of change and reform, as I’m sure we both agree. I do appreciate your feedback and your blog. I really want to thank you for allowing open and honest discussion too, I hope you will continue to give me your thoughts on this issue, as I eagerly await your perspective. Thanks and God bless.

Stephen,

Thank you for your candid, and much more complete, “Cliff’s Notes” presentation of your thoughts. My biggest problem in all this is time. It is very difficult for me to justify spending more than X numbers of hours per post and per week on this blog. And, since I spend so much time thinking/researching and writing, I just can’t, with good conscience, give as much time to feedback/interaction as each commenter deserves.

I know that’s a weakness, but I have to live by priorities and schedule, also,
Boyd

Stephen,

OK, this is the promised “Cliff’s Notes” version of what I amswered before, but somehow it didn’t post.

In my opinion, the SBC, from the top down, has chosen to virtually ignore the issues of the younger generations (X and Y), and, as a result, is “bleeding” some of its most gifted younger leaders (and their churches). This means that the SBC is, by and large, leaving itself almost completely unprepared to face the ever-increasing reality of needing to minister to the rapidly-spreading, and increasingly dominant, Postmodern culture around us. In other words, we are approaching the point of being a much smaller and ghetto-ized Christian subculture in the next 10-15 years.

Having said that, I don’t think it is yet time to throw in the towel. Reform is possible and the need for it in the face of the abusive status quo is becoming much more widely recognized.

Besides, in your case, how would going to the Anglican Communion solve anything? Anglicans and American Episcopalians are beset by liberalism far more than the SBC at present. In addition, they are at least as much warring among themselves–and worldwide!–as the SBC, including over homosexuality and related issues. Finally, in what way would the more high church ritual be an improvement over pietism? And, if you answer, all Jesus asks is that you “worship in spirit and in truth,” I agree. But, is that not at least as easy to do in a pietistic SBC context as in a more ritualistic context?

For whatever it’s worth,
Boyd

Stephen,

Well, I’m not sure that I can disagree with much of your critique of the SBC as it currently exists. But, just like the Reformation thinking you value so much made a huge difference 400-500 years ago, given the state of the medieval Catholic Church, so I hope that the present SBC reform movement can prevent the further decline of the SBC in running off almost all its young and/or creative and/or highly ethical talent.

I’d be happy to further the discussion if you would let me know what you’d like me to speak to,
Boyd

We like to blame the culture, and I don’t have hard facts. I just find it interesting that when the angry people took over the SBC and everything started sounding like a play for power and funds, that’s when we stopped being a spiritual force.

Mike,

Amen and amen!
Boyd

Stephen,

I’ll give you the “Cliff’s Notes” version. If you wish to ask follow-up questions, that’s fine.

Event 1- On Tuesday morning of the meeting, Dr. Rick Garner made a motion out of the Executive Committee recommendation to the Convention for SBC entities to either not add anything on top of the BFM2000 or, if they did, bring it to the Convention for an up or down vote as an amendment to the BFM2000.

Event 2- On Tuesday night, after a fair amount of clarifying debate, the Garner Motion passed by a 57.5% to 42.5% margin. That greatly angered the powers that be, including Dr. Mohler. The word is that they had a meeting Tuesday night and vented, as well as deciding that they were not going to abide by the intention of the motion.

Event(s) 3- Although Mohler was hardly the only one of the group to get up and speak in a beligerent manner about the Garner Motion when they were supposed to be giving their entity annual reports to the Convention, he was the most obviously angry. Besides raising his voice considerably and slamming down his fist on the podium, his tone ranged from sarcastic to downright derogatory.

While I saw many people around me who were dumbfounded by the rage they were witnessing, nobody spoke up about it publicly until I did. Whether I handled it right is a matter of dispute, but the good news is that Dr. Mohler later admitted in a faculty meeting that he does have a real anger problem. And, I have recently heard that he is taking this seriously and working on it with some accountability to those around him, which can only be a good thing.

For whatever it’s worth,
Boyd

PS- I’m very sorry to hear you have decided to leave the SBC! What prompted your decision, especially to the Anglican Communion?

Like I said in my last post, the guys who brought down the twin towers did simple things in plain sight and only the heroes of Flight 93 stepped up and stopped them.

So too many folks sit around and don’t care that the “Lower-ups” are doing what they’re doing.

Sad.

Bob,

I wish it wasn’t so.

Love ya,
Boyd